Talk:Redneck

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westerners as well as southerners

someone apparently removed the addition i made about the term referring to westerners as well as southerners.

in my opinion, the term applies as much to westerners as it does to southerners. Gringo300 00:59, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Old talk

Since Wikipedia is not a dictionary, why shouldn't I simply delete this article? Is there anything interesting whatsoever that can be said about rednecks for an encyclopedia, or are we limited to what would be contained in a dictionary of slang? --Larry Sanger

you shouldn't delete this article because i came to this encyclopaedia specifically to find out the historical origins of the word 'redneck' - please tell me what dictionary, other than the FULL edition of the OED, would contain this information?


You should not delete it because it's fixed now.


I agree! --LS


..added more specific Navy Jack flag and hyperlink since this is the flag that is commonly displayed in the south as the 'Rebel Flag' (adds a bit more history/flavor for this article) --Drakcap 04:27, 2 May 2005 (UTC)


In the northern US, I've heard redneck used to refer to poor whites, not necessarily rural, who have a sunburned neck from working outdoors (for example, construction workers). In fact, before Jeff Foxworthy, I don't remember hearing the term used to refer to southerners or rural people ("hick" being the more commonly used epithet for the latter). How widespread is this usage? Is anyone else familiar with it? CyborgTosser 07:00, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

the term is often used to describe westerners, as well as southerners. (westerners in the sense of people from the western part of the united states) Gringo300 20:29, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)



Don't know about up north but here in the south the term is VERY widespread. Pretty much everybody knows the term and the different connotations of it.Darthmalt

it's probably very widespread in the west as well. Gringo300 20:30, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Coal miners

"red necks" of 1921 coal mining unionization efforts in W.Va.

In a book published in 1969, Howard B. Lee, former Attorney General of West Virginia (1925-1933), states that the men who were part of an organized effort to unionize the West Virginia coalfields in 1921 were called "Red Necks" because the men wore red hankerchiefs around their necks. The organizers wore the red hankerschiefs as a way to tell friend from foe. Lee goes on to say a local lawyer told him that during the era those union organizers jailed were indentified on the jailhouse roll via the initials "R.N." being placed beside their names, as an abbreviation for "Red Neck."

In response to CyborgTosser's question...

The use of term to identify "good ol' boys" dates back before the era of Jeff Foxworthy. During the early 1970's, while attending college in West Virginia, the term redneck was used by practically every student at the college I attended. For example: a bar identified as being a "redneck bar" meant that drinking establishment wasn't a "safe place" for blacks or other minorities, or for white male students with "long hair", to enter.

--Wva-usa 16:06, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

NPOV

Their favorite activities include ... lynching, queer bashing...

Thats not acceptable, by any stretch. (Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 17:41, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
For fucks sake its an ADMITTED STEREOTYPE, its SUPPOSED TO BE POV! sheesh! User:Alkivar/sig 18:30, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)
See chav. NPOV is non-negotiable, and besides, there are many people who self identify as redneck-americans. (Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 13:11, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)


Budwiser

Budweiser isn't cheap.

America's Black Rednecks

This topic just got a whole lot more interesting. See Crippled by Their Culture Race doesn't hold back America's black rednecks. Nor does racism (http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110006608) by Thomas Sowell, author of Black Rednecks and White Liberals, Encounter Books, 2005, ISBN 1594030863

Perhaps the historic definition deserves more serious treatment.

I just skimmed this article, but its premise is absurd. The author -- obviously white (I can't imagine such abysmal ignorance on the part of an African-American) -- appears to know nothing about black culture and assumes southern black culture and white-trash southern culture to be one and the same. That presumption is so riddled with fallacies, I don't know where to begin. Further, there is no such thing as a "black redneck"; the term is itself an oxymoron. It's simply a hook manufactured to sell books. I very much doubt that this work will have any staying power among serious scholars in terms of a realistic examination of the culture of poverty and underachievement of the black underclass in the U.S. Whites and knee-grows like Ward Connerly are constantly searching for ways to debunk the power of race and racism in American society, to let white America off the hook. Well, this doesn't even come close. It's going to take a hell of a lot more than pop cultural "analysis" (and I use the term loosely) and hasty conclusions based on a catchy -- and, I might add, very silly -- phrase to fully understand the plight of the black underclass. And, while ultimately the key to the fate of any one person is primarily and ultimately personal responsibility, racism remains a major factor today in who wins and who loses in life -- and, in fact, who has a ticket to the game and who remains on the other side of the fence altogether, on the outside, looking in. deeceevoice 00:00, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

he's black, see Thomas Sowell or heck, see bill cosby ;) Sam Spade 00:36, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Well, just goes to show there are black fools, too. (Another Connerly, perhaps?) deeceevoice 03:42, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
I just caught your reference to Cosby, Spade. Cosby would be one of the first to acknowledge the importance of the deleterious effects of racism on blacks in America. This crap is a prime example of why some blacks objected to Cosby's comments -- that outsiders (white folks or self-loathing, self-righteous black folks who sniff up white folks' bee-hinds) would take them and run with them -- in the wrong direction. But, then, there are those of us who just don't give a damn what white folks think, who trust that most black folks will understand his words' appropriate historical, social, political -- and most certainly cultural -- context. deeceevoice 16:34, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

I care what other people think regardless of their race, but I guess thats just me... Sam Spade 21:34, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

LOL. Well, good luck with that! :D
The fact of the matter is most white folks are so far from understanding; and, IMO, so many of them have agendas/views that are so antithetical to the well-being and advancement of black folks, that I don't care what they think. If I did, I'd be in real trouble. And, frankly, I don't care what anyone who's not black thinks about the race. IMO, if you know who you are and where you come from, what other people think of you and yours don't mean shyt. And that's a fact. Peace. deeceevoice 22:19, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

there are definitely blacks that are as country as any white redneck, but i still don't think the term redneck is the correct term for them. maybe "black country people"? Gringo300 03:08, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Redneck is Racist Epithet

Redneck, because it can be negative (not always, though) and refers to skin color and discoloration, mostly due to economic status (working outside, originally), is a term that must be classified as racist - a racist epithet. Users of the term, both negative and positive each may have reasons to delete this fact so they can continue to use the term freely, but their opinions that redneck does not refer to race and skin color are NPOV, and not fact - besides, nothing prevents them from using the term if they wish, but by definition, it is a racist term.

arguably, classist, too

arguably, the term redneck is CLASSIST as much or MORE so than it is racist. the people who are described as rednecks are disproportionately poor. historically, the word was used disproportionately by the rich.

the rich tended to be lighter skinned because they didn't have to work out in the sun (or work PERIOD!).

the poor had to work out in the sun, and thus had darker skin- suntans and sunburns, including on the neck, thus REDNECKS.

Gringo300 10:51, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

i edited the article slightly both to comment on the classism issue in as NPOV way as i could think of, and to attempt to bring the article back to a NPOV, which a previous editer had blatantly taken it away from. Gringo300 10:59, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

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